Political Literacy in an Age of Misinformation

EPISODE 44 — 22 September 2023

 

ABOUT THE EP

With The Voice to Parliament referendum coming up, we want to chat about politics and the importance of informed voting. Politics can be intimidating, especially for those who weren’t always engaged with it from a young age or avoided it altogether. We talk about how we've gone from being "not into politics" to how we're now increasing our political education and awareness.

 
 
  • 0:00

    Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge the Cabugao clan of the Direct Nation, who are the traditional custodians of this land we are meeting on today.

    We also pay our respects to the elders both past and present and future of the direct nation.

    Couple of points that really made me think is that there's over 80% of Aboriginal and Torres Island people who are in support of the voice but only the singular individuals who are the outlier in this.

    0:26

    Again the media attention because I think at the moment there's there's no camp is probably leading the way in media particularly some leaders who may not be for it and things like that And a lot of people that I that I've heard from going oh I don't know if I should vote for the I should vote for yes or no because I heard that like First Nations are not in support of the voice.

    0:47

    Yeah but that's not really true.

    Yeah, cause over 80% are.

    Hmm.

    Hi friends.

    Welcome to our podcast, A Seat at Our Table.

    Candid conversations about the creative pursuits of Asian Australians.

    I'm Tracy.

    1:03

    I'm Wendy.

    We saved you a seat.

    Come join us.

    Hi everybody, Welcome back to the podcast.

    It's Windy and I hear, I feel like it's been a while since we've done a little solo episode of Just Windy and Nice, so we're very excited to be chatting just amongst ourselves.

    1:21

    Catching up, even though we always catch up, but I think we have a little family now that we need to keep informed.

    Yeah.

    So I think today's episode is going to be very exciting.

    But before we kind of get into the juicy topic and the topic of today, let's catch up.

    1:37

    Like, how are we?

    What have you been up to?

    Any major life updates?

    Because it's been a few months, I think, since Wendy and I have talked to the microphone about our life.

    And all of you, yeah, I needed to think about what I've been doing these past couple of months.

    1:53

    Yeah, it's September now.

    Yeah, it feels wise.

    Isn't that weird?

    We're out of winter, you know, out of hibernation.

    Ish.

    Yeah, I feel like my life has been like pretty much the same.

    Same.

    I think the big thing that changed is probably finishing volume, like our volleyball tournament.

    2:12

    Yep.

    Which we were training once a week for, but also like playing on the Sunday for.

    I feel like that made like a big part of my life until recently.

    Yeah, that's true.

    It felt like from January to August, that was like the volleyball season, yeah.

    Yeah.

    Yeah, for sure.

    2:29

    Work wise, I feel like everything's the same.

    But excitingly I think this is like a very pivotal moment in my career.

    If you are in the industry you probably know about like good design awards.

    It's like I guess very well recognised awards for projects that you do.

    2:45

    So if you win an award it's a very big deal.

    So two of my first projects at Future Friendly won a good design award.

    It's the green tick one and they were both really like important projects to me.

    One was for Lifeline.

    And one was for come, banks like investing, integration into the main Combank app.

    3:05

    So yeah, that was like, she's got the whole, like, what do you call it, a trophy?

    Yeah, like should be the trophy.

    Bought it until.

    I don't have it yet.

    I don't have it yet.

    But then our true picture of, yeah, yeah, but my team also won good design team of the year which was like the biggest shock to us.

    3:24

    So I bought the trophy was like 400 bucks to commemorate.

    Like all those memories, like me starting our future friendly are swinging.

    Good design team of the year and I feel like that's like a major milestone.

    Yeah, you flew to Melbourne for that too.

    Yeah, yeah.

    First awards ceremony as well, yeah.

    3:40

    How was?

    How was the experience?

    It was actually really, really.

    Good.

    Like, I was expecting, like, really like, shitty food.

    Not a great venue, you say Food is bad.

    Is it bad and?

    What's it's like, yeah, it's apparently better than ICC in Sydney, which is where last year's one was held.

    Like, I was pleasantly surprised, I think, as my expectations were really low.

    3:59

    But the ceremony is so long because there's just so many awards to give out.

    Um.

    But yeah.

    I feel like that's like a nice little like.

    Yeah.

    Sparkle moment in my career.

    Shiny metal.

    Yeah.

    Yeah.

    How about you?

    What have been up to.

    4:15

    So I've just been like you know post like COVID hibernation.

    I was resting all of this year and then now I'm like it's my time to shine.

    I'm living my best life like I'm going out a lot because I want to It's been great.

    4:30

    It's we're due in September so my team at work at and I were doing September.

    Oh yeah.

    So I'm walking heaps trying to hit like a 10,000 K steps, 10,000 steps a day.

    So a lot of outdoor activities.

    So I'm doing.

    I'm back at basketball guys.

    Oh really?

    Yeah.

    4:46

    Another swollen.

    I know another sport added.

    Like we took a year off basketball.

    Well, I took a year off basketball because my knee injury and then volleyball season started so I had it clashed basket when I chose what it were basketball.

    Sorry.

    Friend.

    But now that volleyball season is officially, unofficially over, we're still playing socially.

    5:04

    I'm still playing volleyball three times a week.

    But about the basketball now, So that's been really fun and also realising how like much cardio, you need to play basketball.

    I feel like, I feel like I've got asthma when possible, like not being running like that for so long and going back onto the court.

    5:21

    I was like, guys can't breathe.

    Some me out now like I can't.

    Yeah, so it's been fun kind of getting that runners high again and playing basketball, catching up with a lot of friends.

    I recently saw Ronnie Chang live.

    It's quite good, very funny.

    What else is happening going to Japan.

    5:38

    This episode has been released a week before I go to Japan.

    So at the moment, we're trying to finalise for our Japan kind of itinerary and things like that.

    So yeah, I'm very excited.

    I'm so excited with someone like me too.

    Everyone just happier.

    The vibes are good, the energies are up, like I think it's good.

    5:58

    I have to say, this winter felt hotter than last year.

    Really.

    Yeah.

    I think because I'm just going out more, whereas last year I was like still kind of at home and I was like setting up my new apartment.

    So I was like, here a lot, Yeah.

    But then having to go out like you're feeling the difference in the temperature.

    6:14

    By going to the office more, I was like, oh, I hate winter ohe yeah yeah.

    I thought it was easier for me because I was still working from home and winter was a bit warmer.

    I felt this year telling me is what I've also got a birthday party coming after.

    Her birthday party is like, what, three months late?

    6:33

    It's a.

    It's a.

    What do you calling it like?

    It was a good friend really bash a birthday party.

    So my birthday was in July.

    Our friend Rudy's birthday is in November.

    Were like, oh, we'd love to do a joint party.

    At some point they were like, oh, should we do a combined birthday party in September, the middle month between our our birthdays?

    6:50

    Super random.

    So we're doing a little big bash before we go to Japan.

    Yeah, it's actually the day that.

    So once the episode is released, you may be listening to this on the evening of the 23rd, but we will be putting yeah, we'll be partying.

    7:07

    Also very exciting news.

    Wendy and I are going to Melbourne next week for Oh yeah, a event.

    So The Mavens is a publication, I guess, within the advertising industry championing gender equality.

    And they like we're we're being featured, we're being featured in the magazine.

    7:24

    In a printed magazine, guys.

    Like for me, as a designer, that is so exciting.

    Yeah, yeah, that's like a dream come true.

    Guys like being our faces and our words are going to be in a print magazine that people will buy and read and hold and touch.

    Like, yeah, yeah.

    Pretty incredible.

    7:40

    So we're going to the launch on the 21st of September, which will be on the Thursday.

    So look out for updates of us like maybe doing an unboxing of the magazine and maybe talking a little bit about the questions we were asked.

    7:57

    Yeah, so check and also huge shout out and thank you to like literally the community and our network that has given us this opportunity.

    Like it's such a long winded way, but we met somebody so Josiah chatted to Josiah, shout out to Lynn, shout out to Leah.

    So these three people have been very pivotal in us being featured in this magazine and it literally just came from us doing the podcast, someone going you should speak to this person and they went you should speak to this person.

    8:22

    And then they suddenly there was a full circle, full circle opportunity to be featured in a magazine.

    And it happened really, really quickly.

    Like we didn't expect that at all.

    So I think, like taking the moment now to really let it sink in that this is a really big moment for us, yeah.

    In the podcast, Yes.

    8:37

    Yeah, Yay.

    Also, I guess before we jump into the actual topic of today, we would love for like any loyal listeners, if you love what you hear, if you love, you know this podcast, please let us know by hitting the follow button and leaving us a 5 star rating.

    8:54

    That really helps us kind of get feedback on what we're doing well in and that you guys are listening.

    Yeah.

    And apart from that, if you want to send us like a dam with like your feedback, that's always welcome as well.

    Like, we can only improve this podcast if we know what we're doing well versus not doing so well and start experimenting with some different approaches.

    9:17

    And the best part is like receiving feedback from people.

    And like, where are you listening in from?

    When do you listen to our podcast?

    What do you not listening to?

    Like, just let us know they shave you like us?

    Please let us know.

    Um, but yeah, yeah, onto the episode.

    9:33

    Onto the episode.

    So we have a really important episode that we are going to be doing today.

    So as I'm sure you all know, the voice department referendum is coming up on the 14th of October.

    So coming up real soon.

    So in a month or half a month.

    9:49

    Yeah, in a couple of weeks, essentially in a couple of weeks.

    And what we wanted to do was have an episode, we chat about politics and the importance of voting.

    I think politics can be a really intimidating topic, especially for people like me or like you, who weren't always engaged with it from a very young age.

    10:06

    And sometimes, like I grew up avoiding the topic of politics altogether because it's very intimidating.

    So we really wanted to have an episode to talk about our experience with increasing our political literacy, our ongoing process of learning, becoming better and more informed voters, and the importance of that in this episode.

    10:26

    We're not going to be teaching you about The Voice or teaching you about politics like we're not experts in this field.

    We have no right to be teaching you anything, but we just want to talk about our personal experience and how we've engaged with politics through the years.

    Yeah, and we'll also obviously touch on our stance on The Voice at the very end of the episode.

    10:44

    And I think it's really important to tune into.

    So please do stay till the end and hope you enjoy this episode.

    Yeah.

    So to start, do you feel anxious or confident talking about politics and why?

    I think I used to be anxious talking about politics?

    11:01

    I feel like probably, I'm kind of embarrassed to say like probably from like high school through almost to like first year, second uni.

    I was like, I'm not into politics.

    Yeah, I thought a lot of people said that we're all going on.

    I'm just not into politics.

    But like, I feel so embarrassed.

    11:17

    I even ever said that like, you know, like, what do you mean?

    You're not into politics.

    You're a citizen of Australia and the world.

    You should be into politics, you know.

    And I think for me it was just more so the way to avoid talking about it because I didn't understand it.

    Yeah.

    Like I was like, oh, political issues.

    11:33

    I don't understand that.

    I don't know what policy is.

    I don't know what the government is like still now.

    There's still so much that I need to learn.

    But I think I grew up being quite not.

    I don't know if I don't know, probably anxious when the, like if you're in a group with uni students or something.

    I started talking about like politics.

    Oh my God, I cannot contribute.

    11:50

    I cannot understand what they're talking about.

    So I would avoid it because I didn't understand it.

    Yeah, and I want didn't want to sound stupid.

    Yeah, I think it's the pressure of trying to be politically correct as well.

    Hmm.

    I feel, I feel that pressure, especially in unity, when you're meeting people and you're like starting to become an adult.

    12:08

    So you're like, OK, this is an adult conversation a lot of people are going to have.

    So you're going to have to have like point of view.

    And I feel like based on what you were saying, I really relate to you know, that cop out and stuff like I'm not into politics.

    I have nothing to say about this.

    12:24

    Not gonna contribute, yes.

    But I do think, like, reflecting on that now, like like you said, it's embarrassing to have you like to say that.

    Yeah, cause it's like we could have done a lot to I guess, educate ourselves or even just asking questions or admitting.

    12:39

    Like, I don't know a lot about this topic, but I want to learn.

    Yes, that's a totally different mindset than completely shining Noring and shying away from that.

    Yeah.

    But I think, yeah, definitely now as we're growing older, it's only when you get older, you more mature, you realise the importance of voting and the importance of understanding what the Hecks going around in Parliament and around you as well.

    13:02

    And I I feel now I feel a little bit more confident talking about politics even, you know, even doing this episode has been like a little bit intimidating, a little bit uncomfortable because we're like who are we to talk about politics, you know.

    But it's more so our experience.

    So I think it's it's a nice journey that we've been on.

    13:17

    Yeah, that we're now able to be in a spot where, even if we're not fully confident about it, we still feel brave enough to talk about.

    It, yeah.

    And I think that was the whole point of.

    Having this episode as a part of our plan or having this topic even embedded in, you know, what we're doing as a part of this podcast.

    13:34

    Because I think every episode that we do, it's a learning journey.

    And this one is obviously a little bit more intense because it's kind of like a little bit controversial, right?

    But I think it's like what you were saying, like this is more So what our personal experiences have been, how we have gone on the journey to become a little bit more confident, you know as well.

    13:53

    Yeah, before we go into that journey, like has your agent, Australian upbringing, affected your view of politics?

    Yeah, for sure.

    I think it hasn't influenced it in the way that's like, oh, my parents had really strong opinions about who to vote for and kind of interrogating the situation that we're in or the parties that are involved.

    14:17

    Like we've always voted for Labour.

    Like growing up, my parents would bring like me or my sisters along to voting so that we could do it kind of like for them because like they just.

    Didn't understand, like it's really complex, right?

    Like the shades that you get, like the boxes you have to take, like it didn't make any sense to them.

    14:34

    And I think once they understood what the formula was of voting for Labour, that was kind of like the the narrative that I adopted as well, although the view that I adopted those sheets as well.

    It's also scary like knowing we know our parents and how they didn't understand.

    14:50

    It's very overwhelming like not understanding what to do.

    And you know how, like the campaigners they provide, like the pamphlets that are really like, yeah, because it's like based on what they, the outcome they want.

    And I was like, it's scary to think that, like you might have someone who doesn't speak English, someone who's like a new citizen or whatever, who doesn't understand the political system.

    15:11

    They walk in, they get a pamphlet and say, oh, just stick this and that.

    Yeah, it depends on you.

    Like what they're looking for.

    Yeah, for.

    Sure.

    So I think like we, my parents just learned that like the Labor Party generally are probably more favourable towards like people like us.

    15:27

    Yeah, like low SES backgrounds, they're probably gonna look into government welfare more like that's more of their focus, right?

    Whereas if you vote for Liberals, they're more in favour of like middle class people and like businesses.

    That's always the the lens that I saw things in.

    So it was always like just vote for Labour and I think where we lived in southwest Sydney was always predominantly A Labor Party winning.

    15:47

    Yes, the seat.

    Yeah.

    So that's kind of the narrative.

    I always told myself and I never really questioned it until like I moved out of Cabramatta.

    So it's been an interesting journey in that sense.

    But just growing up I never really questioned.

    It was kind of like, this is who we always work for, so I'm going to vote for them.

    16:04

    Yeah, same.

    I think a lot of my views on politics definitely came from my parents view of it.

    And like similarly I didn't understand anything about the political system.

    But they're always like just by Labour, just go vote Labour.

    Like, that's the narrative that I was always told.

    And then also feeling like I wasn't educated enough to have an opinion on politics because I never got taught politics growing up.

    16:25

    Yeah, because our parents don't come from this country.

    They come from a completely different world with different politics, different governments.

    So coming into Australia, they don't understand the system.

    So we didn't grow up being taught the system of voting.

    16:42

    So I think that was the reason why, as a young person, I never felt brave or confident enough to talk about politics because I literally had zero credit was blank in my mind.

    Blank.

    Yeah.

    Yeah.

    I don't even think like we.

    I think a lens to put on this is also like.

    16:58

    Caring about it and being invested in it, I think we never had a reason to completely care about it or be really invested in it, especially when we're young and growing up, right?

    Apart from the fact that maybe you were taught things in school, but then that stuff never stuck.

    17:14

    Because it's just like you're being taught these things.

    You're not being taught how to interrogate you.

    Never being taught how to have an opinion about something or how to like, you know, pick sides based on like the research that you're doing or the knowledge that you have.

    So I feel like it was always just.

    I'd like sandstone for us, yeah, yeah.

    17:32

    Just given the the perspectives that our parents had.

    And I think for my parents too, like their view on like government.

    In Vietnam versus in Australia is so different because it's like, I think in Vietnam it's like there's a lot of mistrust.

    That's true in the government.

    So coming here and, like, starting your life.

    17:50

    From scratch, basically.

    And the government is granting you like citizenship and whatnot.

    Like, I think there's a lot more trust in that inherently.

    Don't really question.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Yeah.

    Yeah.

    So they don't feel like they don't know what, like corruption in government.

    Yeah, In the context of Australia is.

    Yeah, yeah, that's true, though.

    18:05

    You put it that way.

    Like our political issues are probably like, for them they're like, doesn't matter, like it was literally life or death where they came from.

    On why we complaining.

    Yeah, like, why do we have to be engaged in politics if what we have is pretty good?

    18:21

    Yeah.

    And I thought, I think they focus on just like.

    Assimilating to the system that they've been given because it's probably 10 times better than what they already Yeah, exactly.

    Yeah.

    So what has your journey been like?

    Where have you learned all your political education or your political knowledge if it wasn't for your parents?

    18:40

    At least thing I can remember, honestly is, you know, I don't know if your school is in primary school.

    We visited the Parliament House, went to Canberra, yeah.

    Remember camp Camp?

    We did a camp to Canberra.

    Camp Canberra, Yeah, we visited the Parliament House and I don't even remember doing that.

    18:55

    I just remembered like the trip in itself.

    And that is as early as I can think back to, even in high school, doing things like modern history, like none of that is coming to me now.

    I've tried to think about details like.

    Did I even learn anything about?

    The shelling government like that, I don't think.

    19:13

    I don't think so, Yeah.

    No, I did not in high.

    School, yeah, cause I think the topics that we focused on were like the World War because they assumed we had that knowledge from primary school.

    But yeah, we retained that knowledge when you're like 8.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Right.

    And it's like, I think when we were taught things in high school as well.

    19:34

    It's this is a bit of a tangent, but I think like things are being taught to you, but you're not being taught to form an opinion.

    To to even interrogate the things that the laws that people are wanting to put in place, or like, you know, the things that they're promising.

    Or to know why it's important to even learn these things.

    19:51

    And why am I being taught this?

    Like they weren't really given reasons for why.

    So, like, some people just don't even retain.

    It yeah.

    And I think the education system is built like that.

    So it's like, this is the fact, This is why you need to learn.

    This is what you need to know how you need to respond to the question in your exam.

    And that's it.

    20:06

    So whenever taught like about how voting works, whenever taught about what do we need.

    To do as Australian citizens once you hit 18 exactly.

    You know, we're never taught about like why have these things been designed?

    Yeah, the way that they have.

    Yeah, you know, my earliest memory, like, my only memory is like, yeah, we get taught that when you're in your six, is that your six?

    20:26

    You're 5, you're six.

    Yeah, you're 6.

    In year six.

    And then they don't really talk about it again.

    Yeah.

    And then you just can't retain.

    I just feel like that module maybe would be good to have another one in high school continuation.

    Continuation or?

    20:42

    Like in year 12 when people are approaching their voting age, refresh, refresh, refresh their education.

    Like especially for people from low SES backgrounds like we were, we're not getting that education from our family while parents.

    The only way we're getting it is from schools or our own research.

    20:58

    But as a 17 year old, I'm not going to go out and go what is politics?

    Yeah.

    And if it's not a priority in our family and not priority, you know, at school, then we're also getting that information.

    Yeah, but yeah, like a lot of articles that we read is they say that many young people are interested in.

    Medical issues, but they are uncertain how the system works.

    21:17

    Many high school graduates like us, we recall politics being covered in primary or early secondary school, but it wasn't extended to year 12.

    And I guess the whole thing is that young people need the support when they're approaching voting age to get up to speed.

    So yeah, like, I guess the question is like, do you feel like school prepared us enough?

    21:35

    And I don't know.

    I was just thinking about it now.

    Like, was there a subject around, like things like policy?

    Yeah, For example, like policy design is something that's up and coming in.

    Like the industry that I'm in is like something that is so important that influences obviously the outcomes of people's lives, what they can access and whatnot.

    21:56

    But I didn't know about any of that until like, now when I'm like 27, which is like so late in the game.

    Right.

    And if you can build a, I guess, a learning curriculum around it and empower people to want to be interested in that, I think it's going to change like even just representation in politics as well, which is a really big issue because I don't think like for us we ever considered a, like nobody comes out of high school being like, I want to work for the government, you know, Yeah, it's like really unlikely.

    22:25

    Yeah, but if there are students who do go into policies studying policy in at university, you know, I mean, so there are pathways into it, but maybe certain demographics if I think for our schooling, like no one really talked about that stuff at all, no.

    22:42

    Like we had our cross crossroads.

    What was that?

    Oh my God, I raced so much.

    Crossroads like they had like crossword that module where they teach you about like.

    Driving safety and like drug safety when we went to that thing at Olympic Park where there was like being really intense, like.

    23:01

    Oh my God, what about that?

    Yeah, yeah.

    I don't know, like people like other people who went to high school in signature car crash.

    Yeah, it was like a full on performance about a car crash and how to deal with these things because I think at the time a lot of people were getting their licence or about to.

    23:18

    So they felt like, you know, three time, yeah.

    But it was like we really emotional.

    Apparently yeah.

    But then why?

    And we have that for voting as well.

    You know, a lot of people are approaching their voting age.

    In year 12, we could have a module on voting and policy in the government.

    Yeah, I feel like it's a life.

    Skill, Yeah.

    You need to have, yeah, because it's an obligation.

    23:34

    Is an Australian citizen that you need to vote.

    Exactly.

    Yeah.

    And some people were like, it's just become a chore for them.

    It's.

    A privilege guys in other countries, you can't even have to say in influencing the government.

    I think we talk about obviously the importance of knowledge and knowledge being power and I think understanding how the political and voting system works and learning about social issues.

    23:55

    It allows us to be more actively involved.

    It allows us to influence politics ourselves, like we can actually create changes individuals by using our voting power.

    So I want to talk about like what do we do personally to be more politically aware or educated.

    24:11

    Now for me, just day to day, I try and listen to the news, listen to squeeze in sometimes 7:00 AM when they've got very particular like topics that I'm interested in.

    And I think that just helps me stay on top of like what's happening day-to-day, right.

    24:29

    But I think the important thing for me is trying to absorb this news from like a neutral news outlet, so not from like a particular media outlet that has more left or right wing views, because I kind of want to try and form my own opinion about things.

    24:44

    It's hard though, right?

    Is media so biassed?

    Yeah.

    And like, you know, things are so quick to pop up on like your socials and stuff now.

    So you like, you don't even have a second, yeah, to form that opinion.

    But yeah, I try and just read the news, stay on top of that so that I can also I guess facilitate discussions if it comes up at like work for example.

    25:07

    Such a great adult tip.

    Like to be more interesting and to have be able to engage important conversations.

    If you just read the like, I make it a habit of mine to read the script that I subscribe to the Squeeze newsletter.

    You get the Daily News in your inbox in a very interesting way and very engaging, casual, easy to understand, accessible way in your inbox.

    25:28

    And I just make it a habit of reading it every morning before, like when I wake up before I go to work on the train.

    You know, if you have two minutes to read through all the information and it's very like educational.

    I feel like it makes people like makes you an interest, more interesting person.

    You get a good work and talk about topics that people are talking about.

    25:44

    It just equips you with the tools to have those conversations.

    Yeah, for sure.

    You can't even listen to it on The Squeeze Podcast as well.

    Yeah.

    So I do that every morning if I'm on the train.

    I guess the other thing that I do is interrogate how things are being delivered through media as well.

    26:04

    Not just like social media, but like when I moved out of home to my new local government area.

    I now get like mail, like pamphlets and stuff.

    And I actually retry and make an effort to read what the local council is doing because I don't know anything about this area and I don't know anything about like, you know, what's the majority, I guess like party that wins the election will state election often.

    26:30

    So I wanted to kind of familiarise myself of like, you know, what are the predominant views of people living around this area?

    What is the council doing to improve the lives of people around this area as well?

    Because I think when I moved, there was a state election.

    26:46

    So I was like, oh, I feel like I need to do my due diligence and actually read up on it so that I'm making a vote that feels informed rather than a chore.

    Yes.

    So I think that's the big thing that I've been trying to do.

    And it's also, it just so happened that my life changed and it was like a very apparent time where I needed to do those things.

    27:04

    Whereas I think if like there wasn't a simulation, I probably wouldn't have been collecting.

    Lace in about it, Yeah.

    Yeah, exactly.

    So I think it was like a really good pivotal time in my life where you kind of force me into that mindset.

    And yeah, I think it's just being a more involved, like citizen.

    27:21

    So an example recently was they wanted to open up a local rubbish tip, which is like 5 minutes from my house.

    I I honestly didn't think anything of it because I didn't know the context of what was going to happen.

    But then the local residents around the area, they kind of started like protesting against it.

    27:38

    They had like people at the station handing out pamphlets, my apartment blocks.

    Someone pulled up like instructions on how to write to the council.

    And I never thought about writing to the council because I was like, I'm just one voice, how much influence can I have?

    But I think that the issue around this was it was more about like power numbers.

    27:56

    And if I could see the whole like local, I guess, population kind of gathering around this one issue.

    And I was like, I'm going to like add to it because I do believe in what they were saying and the reasons for not building this local rubbish tip, you know.

    So I was like, I think that really changed my mind said as well.

    28:14

    So yeah, that's I think.

    It's like seeing other people take.

    More actions.

    And you go, oh, I can do that too, right?

    Yeah, it doesn't have to be hard, but I think learning about politics and being politically engaged, sometimes it might sounds like oht like I have to be, you know, an advocate to do that.

    But it's like you can do it in other ways.

    28:30

    Just reading and reading pamphlets, like when you does like that's something already, yeah, it's like making a conscious effort to do your part, to stay more informed and then that will influence like their opinions that you have and like the way that you see the world as well, more.

    Broadly.

    28:46

    Yeah.

    I think like another one for me is that researching things I don't understand, particularly before an election, before a vote, before referendum, you know, whatever.

    It is, like always ensuring that the vote that I'm making is informed and I can back it up.

    29:02

    You know, you don't have to know all the ins and out, all the details, but like when people are gone, if you're voting this way, why are you voting this way?

    Are you voting that way because you just read all the media that everyone else is voting this way?

    Yeah.

    What is your personal reason for voting that way?

    Like, I think it's so important.

    For me to know my way and not have it influenced by other people in the media and I think it starts with when I'm in the reading the media like when I things I don't understand researching like for example when the voice referendum there was a lot of talk about there still is a lot of talk about it right And a lot of people didn't know what it was and my first step was just like Google it like this.

    29:39

    You know you don't know just Google like what it is.

    Look at the government website.

    I I started listening to a podcast by the I want to say ABC.

    BCC sorry.

    One of those called The Party Room, and they've got a series called The Voice Explained.

    And just simple things like it's just 15 minute episodes where they really talk about the basics of what the voice referendum is and just you can do it on the train to work, you can walk, listen to it.

    30:05

    Like it's just simple things that you can do to help you be more educated.

    Like, that's my biggest thing.

    Like, just do your research before you vote.

    Yeah, yeah.

    And I think what I also do is sharing the things I've learned with my friends and family as well, like my family.

    My cousins and I have a Snapchat group.

    30:21

    I know we're still using Snapchat.

    I don't know why we're still.

    Using Snapchat.

    But I only used it because we have, it's just my cousins, we have a group.

    And when I first learned about the voice referendum, I just know like all the people around my lives are probably super busy and they're probably like some people may not be as engaged as I am.

    30:40

    So I just literally recorded a video explaining the things I learned just so they were aware of it.

    So just sharing these things with family and friends is important as well.

    Yeah.

    Yeah.

    And I think like a lot of people shy away from that conversation with their friends because they're like, oh, what if we end up with like different views?

    30:58

    And like, we're not gonna be friends anymore?

    You know, like, I think inevitably you're gonna meet people who share views that you don't necessarily agree on.

    But for me, I always look to understand like the why behind why people have that view.

    31:13

    And you know, if you have different views, then that's fine, You're allowed to have different views.

    I think if it's backed up by, like, the Rock kind of logic.

    Exactly.

    OK, sure.

    Like you can have your own views.

    I can have mine.

    Yeah, that's your truth.

    But as long as you've got something to back it up with.

    31:29

    Yeah, Run like, just following the crowd and just voting the way.

    Yeah, people expect you to vote.

    Yeah.

    I think it's like, it's really important to make that difference.

    Exactly.

    Yeah, and you can also do your part by educating people about the process.

    So may not be like you don't want to impose your views on them and how you want to vote, but like another example is like so again, I'm going to Japan with a bunch of my friends.

    31:51

    Going to be overseas during the voice referendum, Yeah.

    And.

    It's actually it's gonna ask for those who are actually going overseas for the voice referendum.

    Like there's a couple of things you can do which is I actually caught up the AEC because I want to be super clear on how I can still vote while some overseas.

    32:09

    And the tricky thing is that I'm flying out on the 30th of September, so you can do a postal vote, but the postal votes are being sent out from the 25th to the 26th of September.

    So because we're playing on the 30th, it may not reach us on time.

    So we may be overseas when the time the postal vote.

    32:26

    Saw household.

    So we have to like find a embassy or consulate in Japan that we can vote, can vote in and you can also so you can do a postal vote or you can vote in person overseas.

    Most countries have, all countries have an Australian embassy that you can go and they're open like a week before the referendum date.

    32:45

    So you can fit it in during your travels.

    But there's also a thing that you can do where you notify the government that you're going to be overseas.

    So in the off chance that you cannot get to a poll of upholding with whatever.

    They won't find you, OK?

    Yeah.

    So like, for me, I'm definitely gonna be voting no matter what.

    33:03

    Like, I want to be engaged in this in the vote.

    So I kind of just figure out what the process was.

    And then I just sent information to the group and we're like, hey, this is what we need to do. 123, these are the things you need to fill out.

    So it's just like things like that, like small things like that.

    You can help get your people around you to also be engaged.

    33:21

    Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

    I would have just like I think most people would realise super last minute and yeah like scrambling.

    Yeah yeah OK.

    I think I I was thinking back to were you overseas on exchange when the.

    33:37

    Last when the yes to marriage equality.

    Yeah, the marriage equality one happened as well.

    I don't even remember the process that I went through, but I did like a postal vote for that.

    Yeah.

    And that was like really, really important.

    Is something that I really cared about.

    And I think maybe that was like the first time that I actually really engaged or went out of my way to to do something about it because I was like the normal procedure I would go through it was out of my hands like I was going to be overseas.

    34:04

    So I think it was the first time that I actually like engaged with doing some research and figuring out like oh, what's the best option.

    But I think the learning from that is there's always going to be an option for.

    You to vote.

    You have the privilege to vote.

    I think you should make the most out of especially it's something that's important to you.

    That's true.

    Like, I think that marriage equality one was the first time I felt empowered enough to engage.

    34:22

    Super engaged with the political conversation as well, yeah.

    Yeah, I think we also want to touch in this episode.

    Importance of critical thinking.

    Especially like with the rise of social media.

    We're in an age of misinformation and like fake news and like deep fakes and like, you know, AI generated social media accounts.

    34:44

    Like, it's just a mess out there.

    And I think people are absorbing news through sites like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

    But the content can be quite flawed, quite biassed.

    You never know if the claims are verified, but they're so easily.

    35:01

    Forwarded, shared, commented on and they get so much attention, right?

    And it's just so the line between what is real and what isn't is so blurred.

    So I think.

    It's just important for us to kind of keep that in mind and don't take what we read for face value.

    35:17

    Like, is this anything that you kind of do that helps you be critical of what you read?

    I think I always have that at the back of my mind, like I'm reading this, but I can't take it for face value until I go and do a bit more research and get other facts to help me build out.

    35:35

    Like the story that I'm believing in.

    I think when I was like obviously younger and didn't think about just the agendas of people behind the scenes, I would just believe what I read, like on Instagram, for example.

    Yeah.

    But I think now I am very, very conscious, like I said before, of what I'm in ingesting, like what what news outlets am I choosing to read and engage with?

    35:58

    And I like to pick ones where they kind of just give you the facts.

    And then you kind of take from that what you will and then go do your own research to fill in the gaps and then form like an opinion or a stance.

    And like, I I like that.

    Like I think the Daily Oz does that.

    36:14

    They're just like this is the situation.

    This is what you need to know.

    You can go here to look For more information.

    Yeah.

    Yeah.

    So I really like engaging with those because it's not trying to sway my perspective in either way.

    And I think that's really, really important with more and more information being pushed.

    36:31

    At like a quicker rate as well.

    And also like I feel like bad news or native news is the news that gets the most attention as well.

    So you never hear about the good stuff like, yeah, good news story, good news stories or like.

    We always hear like the outlier opinion, like the one that's controversial and that gets so much traction on media and you don't hear like the real truth or like, you know, the more majority like perspective.

    36:57

    So it's kind of scary.

    Yeah.

    I think the thing that I just thought of is, you know, during COVID, like, our parents are getting news that we chat in the WhatsApp, WeChat, WhatsApp, Facebook.

    Like, they would choose to believe anything that they get through those like, social media.

    37:17

    Let's just because, oh, my friend posted about this.

    So my friend told me this, like, my parents were never like that because my parents actually thinking about it now, they listen to the radio in Chinese every morning.

    And I think they get most of their news from that.

    I've never really heard my parents say, like, oh, this is what I saw on Facebook.

    37:36

    So I'm choosing to believe in it.

    My parents are more so, like, my mom has come to me and said, like, oh, I saw this on Facebook.

    Is it true?

    Yeah, that's, you know, And I think that's kind of influenced my mindset as well.

    Yeah.

    And being more conscious of like, especially in times where you know, fears were heightened, people getting swathed so quickly.

    37:55

    And not just reading the headlines like, yeah, more beyond read.

    Beyond the headlines, guys like Keep reading.

    Yeah, those headlines were built to like, you know, push us in agenda.

    So OHS.

    Wild, yeah.

    And actually I'm interesting point actually came from Ronnie Chang's live show.

    He actually talked about misinformation and saying like how his mum was also the same dream pandemic and he's like the baby boomers.

    38:17

    Did not grow up in the age, the digital age.

    They did not know how to differentiate between fake news and real news.

    That's true.

    It's like whatever is printed is.

    Real.

    Exactly.

    Whereas us, we have such a great radar.

    We look at it like that's a scam, you know, I mean, like that's a scam.

    Like that is not real.

    But for them, yeah, they also used to reading newspapers and stuff that when you read it, it's the truth, right?

    38:37

    So when they go on social media, they're not, They don't have a radar where they're looking for scams.

    They're like, this is the news.

    Yeah, we're definitely a lot more sceptical even like with my work, and we would test with stuff with participants.

    People have so like highly alert.

    38:53

    They're like, you know in the age of like scams and frauds, I don't want to receive text messages.

    Yeah, all this kind of stuff.

    So I think we're.

    Sceptics.

    Yeah, exactly.

    But we we're lucky because we grew up in this environment so we know the nuances and they're really minor details were like, that's clearly Photoshopped.

    39:08

    Yeah, that's not true, but it's also just easier to fake thing.

    Yeah, so easy.

    So easy.

    So yeah, just always kind of look at the source, try to figure out.

    Is this claim coming from is a verified who's saying it?

    What's their agenda?

    I think that's always an important thing to keep in mind when you're reading political news.

    39:26

    Another thing I kind of want to ask was, I guess Australia is a multiple country, multicultural country as we know, but there is an underrepresentation of cultural and linguistic diversity in the political sphere and particularly evident with senior leaders in in government.

    39:43

    Like, has this influenced your attitude towards politics?

    For sure.

    I think not seeing, you know, Asian representation in politics growing up made me careless about it.

    Like, I never thought about those people can relate to my story or I can relate to theirs.

    40:03

    So there was never a reason for me to kind of care enough about it because I just didn't see a correlation between me and them.

    I was kind of like, they're living in they've, they've got their own world and I've got mine.

    Yeah.

    And I think that's a realisation I came to when reflecting.

    40:18

    Got this topic, but I think in more recent years, like people that I personally know, going into politics has made me care a lot more about it because it's like that's a direct connection that I have and I want to support them if I can.

    And I think that's just given me a whole lot more to care about now.

    40:36

    But I still don't think there's enough representation out there.

    I think we've got such a long way to go AP.

    Actually did a really good article on their their website where they interviewed all the.

    Asian Australian politics running for Parliament.

    40:52

    And there are so many, not so many.

    But like, I've ever seen, you know, that I've ever seen this one, like 15 or something like that, which is like not a lot, right.

    But like more than I've ever seen growing up.

    So I think there is now more attention on diverse leaders, which, like you said, makes me want to engage more.

    41:09

    Yeah, yeah, sure.

    In this next part, we want to touch on The Voice referendum on the 14th of October and encourage everyone to ensure they are enrolled to vote and with an informed decision regardless of who you vote for.

    We hope it's an educated decision and not based on fear of not knowing or shying away from the conversation.

    41:29

    There is so many resources out there that you can kind of go in and dig into.

    So we hope you kind of take that away and yeah, go about it in your own way.

    But I hope the information we've kind of highlighted has been really.

    Helpful.

    Yeah.

    I think it's just important to do your research really, and like not be swayed by.

    41:48

    Headlines.

    Yeah, or like fake news and things like that.

    But I think what has, I think what we want to spend the last part of the podcast doing is also drawing attention to exactly what we're voting for.

    Yeah, like the facts, right?

    Let's talk about the facts about the boys.

    We had a session with no PSN network and he always said start with the amendment.

    42:07

    Like, start with reading what is the proposed amendment to the Constitution?

    Like, exactly.

    On October 14th, when you go into to vote, this is what you're going to see.

    In the box, right.

    Yes or no, that's as simple it is.

    And then the four parts to the amendment is 1 recognition.

    42:25

    So we are voting for in recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of Australia.

    So it's recognising that First Nations people were the first people to be in Australia.

    That's kind of the first part of the amendment that we're voting for. 2nd is a guarantee.

    42:41

    There's an aspect that there shall be a body to be caught, the Aboriginal and Torres State Island of Voice, and that's going to be built into the Constitution.

    Um, the purpose of it is that the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voice may make representations to the Parliament and the Executive Government of the Commonwealth on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres State Island people.

    43:03

    So they may make representations to the Government or matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres State people.

    And then the last part, which I think there's a lot of.

    Conversation around is what is the detail, where is the detail right?

    And the detail, I guess is the Parliament shall, subject to the Constitution, have the power to make laws with respect to matters relating to the Aboriginal and Torres State under voice, including its composition, powers, functions and procedures.

    43:30

    So I guess the parliament, the government, has the power to.

    Determine the detail of the voice.

    Hmm.

    So I think it's important to be familiar with exactly what we're voting for and this is the wording that we are going to be seeing when we go into vote on that day.

    43:47

    So I think it's just kind of like wanting to read that out.

    So it was kind of a way of it because it's going to be one question, but there's obviously a lot of thinking behind it and there's obviously a lot of like principles that come with it as well of what this is going to allow versus not allowed.

    44:05

    So I think reading up on that is really important as well, so that you know exactly what you're responding.

    Yeah, yeah, exactly.

    Yeah.

    And rather than like responding to like, you know, some people like taking parts of it and like totally like dramatising it or like this fake news out there, but like just going back to what's going to be on that piece of paper is a good starting point.

    44:26

    And I kind of also wanted to talk about, I mentioned that, like at work we had a talk from Noel Pearson.

    So he's a prominent advocate in Indigenous, right.

    And he's kind of a big.

    Voice in this campaign at the moment and there's a couple of points that when he was talking through the amendment and like what it means to First Nations people, that really struck A chord with me and that I kind of wanted to bring to the table.

    44:50

    Like I think a couple of points that really made me think is that there's over 80% of Aboriginal and Torres Island people who are in support of the boys, but only the singular individuals who are the outlier in this.

    Again, the media attention because I think at the moment there's there's no camp is getting probably leading the way in media.

    45:09

    I would say particularly some some leaders who may not be for it and things like that and a lot of people that I've that I've heard from going oh, I don't know if I should vote for the I should vote for yes or no because I heard that like First Nations people are not in support of the voice.

    45:25

    Yeah.

    But that's not really true.

    Yeah.

    Cause over 80% are.

    Yeah, I think that's really important because from what I read, the no camp have two really clear leaders with a very clear message and that is what is influencing people.

    45:41

    It's not the fact that they are speaking for the majority.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Aboriginal and Torres.

    Strait it's interesting too because I guess the yes camp have so many leaders who are in support but from a marketing perspective yeah it's not it's not it's not as clear Yeah yeah.

    45:58

    And then the other point that he made that actually made me really sad.

    It was like, it's very easy to mobilise fear and hate and he was like, the biggest problem is how do you market the most unloved group in Australia and how do you get like the semi?

    The 97% of Australians to vote for the 3%, which is like really sad.

    46:17

    Yeah, that's huge to hear like in a statement because I never really thought about it in that way in terms of like 97% of Australia are the ones voting for, you know, the outcomes of three.

    Percent of these people exactly like and like, you know, First Nations people have been so mistreated through the history of Australia and he just said it's just so easy for.

    46:39

    People to like.

    Lean on the the hate, the racism, the fear of the unknown and things like that.

    Yeah, or the years of like hatred that's built towards First Nation people.

    And it's just very easy to like use that as a way to sway sway votes.

    46:55

    And I think from like a person of colour perspective as well, I think it's like really like I feel lucky to be Asian and then like I can even imagine what it's like to be like First Nations.

    So it's just like, I guess something put in perspective.

    47:11

    To a call out to be more I guess empathetic in the experience and this conversation would be kind to people as well.

    So yeah, that was one that's really struck A chord with me.

    And then another point he made was there's no such thing as a progressive No, I think there's two kind of camps in the no camp in the at the moment.

    47:31

    People who are like straight out no do not support this.

    People who?

    Who support indigenous rights but don't feel like the voice is the answer.

    So they are voting no, but you know, like no.

    But there's another option right there, asking for other things.

    47:47

    There's no such thing though.

    But that's at the moment the only option we have is the voice.

    That is only our only chance at the moment to make a difference in indigenous peoples lives.

    So if you even if you support their rights and you don't know, it still would know.

    48:02

    But there's no such thing as a progressive.

    No, there's no other option.

    And then in that talk how what he the closing statement was, I guess, he said.

    We have to ask ourselves, like the decision that we make, what are we going to be comfortable with?

    What will Australia look like the day after we get the results?

    48:20

    And is it going to be a country that will be proud of?

    Hmm.

    I guess this is the same question that you could apply in any reforms that we've ever had like the the equality one as well, yeah.

    I'm really glad.

    I'm really grateful.

    I had the opportunity to hear no person talk and like one of my workmates, he actually was like afterwards to me was like, he was like, oh, I was on the fence and I thought I was gonna vote no.

    48:42

    But after listening to that, I realised it was all misinformation and like, I'm, I'm, I'm on the yes side now, which is that crazy.

    Yeah.

    The power that conversation can have, and he may have never been exposed to that of your work.

    Never.

    Yeah.

    Took the initiative to have no peace and come in.

    48:59

    Yeah.

    Well, yeah, yeah.

    Well, to close, the voice to Parliament referendum is on the 14th of October.

    And as Australian and global citizens, we have the privilege and responsibility to make informed voting decisions and influence politics.

    49:15

    So we encourage all of you to continue engaging with the conversations that are happening, but also a reminder to be kind and empathetic to each other and yourselves during this time because it is a really, really tense time.

    So don't forget to look after yourselves.

    49:31

    Yeah.

    Thank you for tuning in everybody.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.

    Alright, bye.

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